T20 WC would be the 'real' World Cup in future (Exclusive Interview with Chris Cairns)

Abrar Ahmed Khan
February 24, 2011

With exceptional batting as well as bowling skills, Former New Zealand cricketer Chris Cairns is regarded as one of the best cricket all-rounders to have played at the international level. He is in Mangalore to play a charity T20 match to raise funds to help the needy. The earstwhile Kiwi skipper shares his thoughts on cricket, his Foundation, the World Cup and more with Abrar Ahmed Khan:

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You are here to play a charity T20 match to raise funds for the needy. Tell us more about the Chris Cairns Foundation…
We are involved with helping young children who are hearing impaired. The reason that I’m involved with that is because my father had lost 90% of his hearing and he had a cochlear implant and now he has 90% hearing. I have seen what it has done to him and how it changed his life. So its an opportunity to try and help youngsters to give them a new way of life. We are starting very small but we want to grow and make a difference to those who can’t afford to make use of the technology.

New Zealand is currently coping with the earthquake mishap…Your Foundation must be pretty much involved with relief and related activities there as well…

I have a Foundation in New Zealand and I carry out charity activities there as well. The earthquake incident is a catastrophic event. It has hit my place. Christchurch is where I am from. I have been speaking to my mother ten times a day making sure everything is okay back home. All my friends are thankfully okay, but there would be hundreds in New Zealand who are not. The day when the final death toll would be released, would be the darkest and the most catastrophic day in New Zealand’s history. We are a young nation. This event will live long in the memories of all New Zealanders. Its very sad.

The earthquake has pumped up the New Zealand cricket team though. Players from the team have said already that they would want to cheer their countrymen up by performing well in the WC. Your thoughts on NZ’s chances in the tournament?

I think it’s a very open tournament. It ‘really’ begins in the quarter finals in a couple of weeks’ time. I think any team has the capability to win it. India and Sri Lanka are probably the two favourite teams but its anybody’s tournament.

The World Cup is a nice time to see some exciting on-field rivalries in world cricket. India-Pakistan and Australia-England stand right up there. However, a lesser known rivalry is the New Zealand-Australia rivalry. What is the history behind this one, in the sense, why is it that your neighbours, the Aussies, are considered your traditional rivals?

We are neighbours like India and Pakistan are. There is a close proximity to each other. We compete in all forms be it politics or sports. We are not too dissimilar to each other. That’s why there is that closeness and that competition.

Talking about Australia, most cricket pundits across the globe are of the opinion that the Kangaroos are no longer the dominant force they once were, and are now in the process of experiencing a downfall on the same lines as the West Indies. You agree with them?

Oh absolutely. When you take players of the likes of Gilchrist, Warne, Hayden, Langer, McGrath, and Gillespie out of the team, of course you’re going to be weaker, until the new lot of guys come through and gain experience. Same with India. Maybe, in a couple of years’ time, after losing the likes of Sachin, Laxman and Dravid, it will be tough for India for a few years, until the youngsters get experienced. The fans have to be patient. In today’s environment, fans don’t have patience and so is the case with most media.

A common perception today is that the passion for cricket is up and rising in subcontinent countries while it is diminishing in most countries including New Zealand where there are other sports like Rugby that attract people. To top it all, the ICC has recently announced that associate nations won’t be a part of the 2015 World Cup, igniting more debates about the game not being allowed to grow worldwide. Do you see a gloomy future for cricket with these developments?
No not really. They have increased the T20 World Cup competition to 16 teams. So they are projecting T20 as the future of the game along with the ICC Test Championship. Where we go with the 50 over game after 2015, I’m not sure. The 2015 World Cup with countries out of it is a diminished product and it seems that the T20 World Cup is the true World Cup rather than what would be a Champions Trophy kind of tournament in Australia / New Zealand in 2015.

You have played in a few World Cups. Which is your favourite World Cup moment?

Well, we have only been able to reach semifinals in World Cups. One of the special moments could be beating Australia in 1999. We had a wonderful tournament in 1992. I feel the best team we had in a World Cup, which I was a part of, was the 2003 World Cup. We had chosen not to go to Kenya back then which cost us points and it meant we were under pressure in the Super Six stage. I feel the best chance we had was in 2003 as that side was a very good side. Unfortunately we needed to beat India in a knock out match and we lost that game at Centurion. It’s mixed for me, the World Cup, as we never won it.

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In the current World Cup, teams have rather easily scored in excess of 300. The Netherlands scored 292 the other day. You think T20 has had its impact on the ODI format already?

Yes, from 2007, the game has advanced 30-40 runs per innings, purely because of T20 and the understanding of the ability to hit the ball. T20 has given players a certain way which, maybe they wouldn’t have explored in 50 over cricket. It has freed up the scoring and that’s why the scores today are bigger.

What is your take on the UDRS system?

I think it’s brilliant. It’s a good innovation. The umpires like it, the players like it, everybody likes it, except India! Until India likes it, it perhaps is never going to be used. The ICC should not leave it to the boards to decide whether they want it. It should be an ICC directive. The ICC needs to show leadership and make sure that it occurs in every Test series because it enhances the game. Why it’s not being done, I’m not sure. Only ICC can answer that.

Gary Kirsten is all set to quit as coach of Team India after the World Cup. If you are approached by the Indian board to coach the Indian team, will you accept the offer?

I think I’m not the one for it. For me, the best person to coach India is Stephen Fleming. I think that his coaching with the Chennai Super Kings and relationship with M S Dhoni is very strong. I think he gels well with the Indian culture and the Indian way of life. I think he is the best candidate. If India can get him, it can be great for Indian cricket.

You had played in the Indian Cricket League (ICL), which was seen as a ‘rebel league’ by many and you even had a bit of a scuffle with Former IPL Commissioner Lalit Modi. You had even said that you are going to file a defamation case against him. Do you feel happy in a way that BCCI has taken him to task and he has been shown the door?

Well, I have no comment on this. We have an ongoing case and I would want to just sort of refrain from that at the moment as the matter is sub judice.

In your entire cricketing career, which is that one moment you savour?

It’s always your debut. For me, it was in 1989 in Perth against Australia. Apart from that, winning has always been special for me regardless of where and when we won. The 2001 Champions Trophy final win against India in Nairobi was special. Winning against England at Lord’s in 1999, which was the first ever victory for New Zealand against England was also special. For me, basically it was winning, and that is the most important thing.

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Ram Puniyani
February 4,2020

As democracy is seeping in slowly all over the world, there is an organization which is monitoring the degree of democracy in the individual countries, The Economist Intelligence Unit. As such in each country there are diverse factors which on one hand work to deepen it, while others weaken it. Overall there is a march from theoretical democracy to substantive one. The substantive democracy will herald not just the formal equality, freedom and community feeling in the country but will be founded on the substantive quality of these values. In India while the introduction of modern education, transport, communication laid the backdrop of beginning of the process, the direction towards deepening of the process begins with Mahatma Gandhi when he led the non-cooperation movement in 1920, in which average people participated. The movement of freedom for India went on to become the ‘greatest ever mass movement’ in the World.

The approval and standards for democracy were enshrined in Indian Constitution, which begins ‘We the people of India’, and was adopted on 26th January 1950. With this Constitution and the policies adopted by Nehru the process of democratization started seeping further, the dreaded Emergency in 1975, which was lifted later restored democratic freedoms in some degree. This process of democratisation is facing an opposition since the decade of 1990s after the launch of Ram Temple agitation, and has seen the further erosion with BJP led Government coming to power in 2014. The state has been proactively attacking civil liberties, pluralism and participative political culture with democracy becoming flawed in a serious way. And this is what got reflected in the slipping of India by ten places, to 51st, in 2019. On the index of democracy India slipped down from the score of 7.23 to 6.90. The impact of sectarian BJP politics is writ on the state of the nation, country.

Ironically this lowering of score has come at a time when the popular protests, the deepening of democracy has been given a boost and is picking up with the Shaheen Bagh protests. The protest which began in Shaheen Bagh, Delhi in the backdrop of this Government getting the Citizenship amendment Bill getting converted into an act and mercilessly attacking the students of Jamia Milia Islamia, Aligarh Muslim University along with high handed approach in Jamia Nagar and neighbouring areas.  From 15th December 2019, the laudable protest is on.

It is interesting to note that the lead in this protest has been taken by the Muslim women, from the Burqa-Hijab clad to ‘not looking Muslim’ women and was joined by students and youth from all the communities, and later by the people from all the communities. Interestingly this time around this Muslim women initiated protest has contrast from all the protests which earlier had begun by Muslims. The protests opposing Shah Bano Judgment, the protests opposing entry of women in Haji Ali, the protests opposing the Government move to abolish triple Talaq. So far the maulanas from top were initiating the protests, with beard and skull cap dominating the marches and protests. The protests were by and large for protecting Sharia, Islam and were restricted to Muslim community participating.

This time around while Narendra Modi pronounced that ‘protesters can be identified by their clothes’, those who can be identified by their external appearance are greatly outnumbered by all those identified or not identified by their appearance.

The protests are not to save Islam or any other religion but to protect Indian Constitution. The slogans are structured around ‘Defence of democracy and Indian Constitution’. The theme slogans are not Allahu Akbar’ or Nara-E-Tadbeer’ but around preamble of Indian Constitution. The lead songs have come to be Faiz Ahmad Faiz’s ‘Hum Dekhenge’, a protest against Zia Ul Haq’s attempts to crush democracy in the name of religion. Another leading protest song is from Varun Grover, ‘Tanashah Aayenge…Hum Kagaz nahin Dikhayenge’, a call to civil disobedience against the CAA-NRC exercise and characterising the dictatorial nature of the current ruling regime.

While BJP was telling us that primary problem of Muslim women is Triple talaq, the Muslim women led movements has articulated that primary problem is the very threat to Muslim community. All other communities, cutting across religious lines, those below poverty line, those landless and shelter less people also see that if the citizenship of Muslims can be threatened because of lack of some papers, they will be not far behind in the victimization process being unleashed by this Government.

While CAA-NRC has acted as the precipitating factor, the policies of Modi regime, starting from failure to fulfil the tall promises of bringing back black money, the cruel impact of demonetisation, the rising process of commodities, the rising unemployment, the divisive policies of the ruling dispensation are the base on which these protest movements are standing. The spread of the protest movement, spontaneous but having similar message is remarkable. Shaheen Bagh is no more just a physical space; it’s a symbol of resistance against the divisive policies, against the policies which are increasing the sufferings of poor workers, the farmers and the average sections of society.

What is clear is that as identity issues, emotive issues like Ram Temple, Cow Beef, Love Jihad and Ghar Wapasi aimed to divide the society, Shaheen Bagh is uniting the society like never before. The democratisation process which faced erosion is getting a boost through people coming together around the Preamble of Indian Constitution, singing of Jan Gan Man, waving of tricolour and upholding the national icons like Gandhi, Bhagat Singh, Ambedkar and Maulana Azad. One can feel the sentiments which built India; one can see the courage of people to protect what India’s freedom movement and Indian Constitution gave them.

Surely the communal forces are spreading canards and falsehood against the protests. As such these protests which is a solid foundation of our democracy. The spontaneity of the movement is a strength which needs to be channelized to uphold Indian Constitution and democratic ethos of our beloved country.

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Ram Puniyani
June 29,2020

In Minneapolis, US an African American, George Floyd lost his life as the white policeman, Derek Chauvin, caught hold of him and put his knee on his neck. This is a technique developed by Israel police. For nine long minutes the knee of the while policeman was on the neck of George, who kept shouting, I can’t breathe.

Following this gruesome murder America erupted with protests, ‘Black lives matter’. The protestors were not just African Americans but also a large section of whites. Within US one police Chief apologized for the act of this. In a touching gesture of apology the police force came on its knees. This had reverberations in different parts of the World.

The act was the outcome of the remnants of the racial hatred against blacks by the whites. It is the hatred and the perceptions which are the roots of such acts of violence. What was also touching that the state of democracy in US is so deep that even the police apologized, the nation, whites and blacks, stood up as a sensitive collective against this violence.

US is not the only country where the brutal acts of violence torment the marginalized sections of society. In India there is a list of dalits, minorities and adivasis who are regularly subjected to such acts. But the reaction is very different. We have witnessed the case of Tabrez Ansari, who was tied to the pole by the mob and beaten ruthlessly. When he was taken to police station, police took enough time to take him to hospital and Tabrez died.

Mohsin Sheikh, a Pune techie was murdered by Hindu Rashtra Sena mob, the day Modi came to power in 2014. Afrazul was killed by Shambhulal Regar, videotaped the act released on social media. Regar believed that Muslims are indulging in love Jihad, so deserve such a fate. Mohammad Akhlaq is one among many names who were mob lynched on the issue of beef cow. The list can fill pages after pages.

Recently a young dalit boy was shot dead for the crime of entering a temple. In Una four dalits were stripped above waste and beaten mercilessly. Commenting on this act the Union Minister Ramvilas Paswan commented that it is a minor incident. Again the list of atrocities against dalits is long enough. The question is what Paswan is saying is the typical response to such gruesome murders and tortures. In US loss of one black life, created the democratic and humane response. In India there is a general silence in response to these atrocities. Some times after a good lapse of time, the Prime Minister will utter, ‘Mother Bharati has lost a son’. Most of the time victim is blamed. Some social groups raise their voice in some fora but by and large the deafening silence from the country is the norm.

India is regarded as the largest democracy. Democracy is the rule of law, and the ground on which the injustices are opposed. In America though the present President is insensitive person, but its institutions and processes of democratic articulations are strong. The institutions have deepened their roots and though prejudices may be guiding the actions of some of the officers like the killer of George, there are also police officers who can tell their President to shut up if he has nothing meaningful to say on the issue. The prejudices against Blacks may be prevalent and deep in character, still there are large average sections of society, who on the principles of ‘Black lives matter’. There are large sections of vocal population who can protest the violation of basic norms of democracy and humanism.

In India by contrast there are multiple reasons as to why the lives of Tabrez Ansari, Mohammad Akhlaq, Una dalit victims and their likes don’t matter. Though we claim that we are a democracy, insensitivity to injustices is on the rise. The strong propaganda against the people from margins has become so vicious during last few decades that any violence against them has become sort of a new normal. The large populace, though disturbed by such brutalities, is also fed the strong dose of biases against the victims. The communal forces have a great command over effective section of media and large section of social media, which generates Hate against these disadvantaged groups, thereby the response is muted, if at all.

As such also the process of deepening of our democracy has been weak. Democracy is a dynamic process; it’s not a fixed entity. Decades ago workers and dalits could protest for their rights. Now even if peasants make strong protests, dominant media presents it as blocking of traffic! How the roots of democracy are eroded and are visible in the form where the criticism of the ruling dispensation is labelled as anti National..

Our institutions have been eroded over a period of time, and these institutions coming to the rescue of the marginalized sections have been now become unthinkable. The outreach of communal, divisive ideology, the ideology which looks down on minorities, dalits and Adivasis has risen by leaps and bounds.

The democracy in India is gradually being turned in to a hollow shell, the rule of law being converted in to rule of an ideology, which does not have faith in Indian Constitution, which looks down upon pluralism and diversity of this country, which is more concerned for the privileges of the upper caste, rich and affluent. The crux of the matter is the weak nature of democracy, which was on way to become strong, but from decades of 1980s, as emotive issues took over, the strength of democracy started dwindling, and that’s when the murders of the types of George Floyd, become passé. One does complement the deeper roots of American democracy and its ability to protect the democratic institutions, which is not the case in India, where protests of the type, which were witnessed after George Floyd’s murder may be unthinkable, at least in the present times. 

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Ram Puniyani
February 22,2020

This January 2020, it is thirty years since the Kashmiri Pundits’ exodus from the Kashmir valley took place. They had suffered grave injustices, violence and humiliation prior to the migration away from the place of their social and cultural roots in Kashmir Valley. The phenomenon of this exodus had been due to the communalization of militancy in Kashmir in the decade of 1980s. While no ruling Government has applied itself enough to ‘solve’ this uprooting of pundits from their roots, there are communal elements who have been aggressively using ‘what about Kashmiri Pundits?’, every time liberal, human rights defenders talk about the plight of Muslim minority in India. This minority is now facing an overall erosion of their citizenship rights.

Time and over again in the aftermath of communal violence in particular, the human rights groups have been trying to put forward the demands for justice and rehabilitation of the victim minority. Instead of being listened to those particularly from Hindu nationalist combine, as a matter of routine shout back, where were you when Kashmiri Pundits were driven away from the Valley? In a way the tragedy being heaped on one minority is being justified in the name of suffering of Pundits and in the process violence is being normalized. This sounds as if two wrongs make a right, as if the suffering Muslim minority or those who are trying to talk in defense of minority rights have been responsible for the pain of Kashmiri Pundits.

During these three, many political formations have come to power, including BJP, Congress, third front and what have you. To begin with when the exodus took place Kashmir was under President’s rule and V. P. Singh Government was in power at the center. This Government had the external support of BJP at that time. Later BJP led NDA came to power for close to six years from 1998, under the leadership of Atal Bihari Vajpayee. Then from 2014 it is BJP, with Narerda Modi as PM, with BJP brute majority is in power. Other components of NDA are there to enjoy some spoils of power without any say in the policies being pursued by the Government. Modi is having absolute power with Amit Shah occasionally presenting Modi’s viewpoints.

Those blurting, ‘what about Kashmiri Pundits?’ are using it as a mere rhetoric to hide their communal color. The matters of Kashmir are very disturbing and cannot be attributed to be the making of Indian Muslims as it is being projected in an overt and subtle manner. Today, of course the steps taken by the Modi Government, that of abrogation of Article 370, abolition of clause 35 A, downgrading the status of Kashmir from a state to union territory have created a situation where the return of Kashmiri Pundits may have become more difficult, as the local atmosphere is more stifling and the leaders with democratic potential have been slapped with Public Safety Act, where they can be interned for long time without any answerability to the Courts. The internet had been suspended, communication being stifled in an atmosphere where democratic freedoms are curtailed which makes solution of any problem more difficult.

Kashmir has been a vexed issue where the suppression of the clause of autonomy, leading to alienation led to rise of militancy. This was duly supported by Pakistan. The entry of Al Qaeda elements, who having played their role against Russian army in 1980s entered into Kashmir and communalized the situation in Kashmir. The initial Kashmir militancy was on the grounds of Kashmiriyat. Kashmiriyat is not Islam, it is synthesis of teachings of Buddha, values of Vedant and preaching’s of Sufi Islam. The tormenting of Kashmiri Pundits begins with these elements entering Kashmir.

Also the pundits, who have been the integral part of Kashmir Valley, were urged upon by Goodwill mission to stay on, with local Muslims promising to counter the anti Pundit atmosphere. Jagmohan, the Governor, who later became a minister in NDA Government, instead of providing security to the Pundits thought, is fit to provide facilities for their mass migration. He could have intensified counter militancy and protected the vulnerable Pundit community. Why this was not done?

Today, ‘What about Kashmiri Pundits?’ needs to be given a serious thought away from the blame game or using it as a hammer to beat the ‘Muslims of India’ or human rights defenders? The previous NDA regime (2014) had thought of setting up enclosures of Pundits in the Valley. Is that a solution? Solution lies in giving justice to them. There is a need for judicial commission to identify the culprits and legal measures to reassure the Pundit community. Will they like to return if the high handed stifling atmosphere, with large number of military being present in the area? The cultural and religious spaces of Pundits need to be revived and Kashmiryat has to be made the base of any reconciliation process.

Surely, the Al Qaeda type elements do not represent the alienation of local Kashmiris, who need to be drawn into the process of dialogue for a peaceful Kashmir, which is the best guarantee for progress in this ex-state, now a Union territory. Communal amity, the hallmark of Kashmir cannot be brought in by changing the demographic composition by settling outsiders in the Valley. A true introspection is needed for this troubled area. Democracy is the only path for solving the emigration of Pundits and also of large numbers of Muslims, who also had to leave the valley due to the intimidating militancy and presence of armed forces in large numbers. One recalls Times of India report of 5th February 1992 which states that militants killed 1585 people from January 1990 to October 1992 out of which 982 were Muslims and 218 Hindus.

We have been taking a path where democratic norms are being stifled, and the promises of autonomy which were part of treaty of accession being ignored. Can it solve the problem of Pundits?

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